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| Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here. |
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06-03-2012, 08:07 PM
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Lm339
Hi UFO and all,
You may not hear from me a lot but I have been here and building and running this fine circuit. I wanted to note fore some who are building this that we, Bob and I, have had a small problem getting a second system running and have found that not all LM339 IC's are the same. We both put in Texas Instruments LM339 and got a short with heave draw. Most all other 339's are correct and remember that datasheets should always be checked when using a chip by another builder. Radio Shack saved our butts again, there LM339 is correct. Happy Building  Dana           
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06-03-2012, 09:20 PM
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Lm339
UFO et al,
As Dana said, different pin outs for different manufacturers. Radio Shack ones that should work (even though they are made by TI. TI spec sheets show a different pin out. Maybe they make more than one LM339, ?). As drawn, the pins should be as follows: Pin 1=OUTPUT 2 Pin 2=OUTPUT 2 Pin 3=+V Pin 4=INPUT 1- Pin 5=INOUT 1+ Pin 6=INPUT 2- Pin 7=INPUT 2+ Pin 12=GROUND (other pins not used) Either find LM339s that match that or re-draw to accommodate what you've got. Now that we've (hopefully) got the screw-ups behind us, we can have even more fun. I've got an NE-30 to light up! Bob PS -UFO, I just realized that the drill motor that I ran (slowly) was an AC motor! No wonder it didn't like it. I'll try a cordless one that I've got.
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06-04-2012, 12:22 AM
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circuit still not working
Everyone,
We have not discovered what is going on yet. I am not sure of what pin out the LM339s I have are set for. I have an assortment of them. I will keep you posted, Bob
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06-04-2012, 02:53 AM
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Relative error in LM339
Bob, Dana,
It seems that the difference in Motorola is that exchanges the relative values of the comparators 1 and 2. But should not affect the circuit in practice. Right? I think it's the same pinout. Pins 1, 6, 7 : One Comparator. Pins 2, 4, 5 : Other Comparator. In your post pins 1 and 2 are the same ?  Last edited by torpex : 06-04-2012 at 03:00 AM. Reason: pinout
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06-04-2012, 03:10 AM
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Lm339
The Texas Instrument ic has pin 1 is one output. Other pins are also different. If you just watch your data sheet, things will go well. We soldered a plugin base into the board and when we changed to TI, well, lets just say we need to replace a few things.
Dana 
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06-04-2012, 03:17 AM
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Thanks Larry!!
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First, I am glad you read the Asymmm versus Symm thread and also the video, and that you liked it, it is all my pleasure. Larry, you are right, and it does not bother me at all that you have your opinion on this, on the contrary, this helps to enlighten Us all. I agree with you on the resistance values, versus watts and voltages...however, Larry, I have done this test with just the Hot side, meaning No Diodes, just coil (without the coil and just oscillator-output to CFL...NO LIGHT at all, I have also tried that) ...and the resistor burst on fire (same value resistor as I tried before on Radiant or "Inductive" load...) and Mosfet's got super hot to blow out...I turned off everything on time...it was just to film it... (NOTE: I do not want to suggest-encourage other members to do it, because if you do not act fast, you loose some good components) Now, I do not agree on your Amperage opinion related to Mosfet's...and you will be able to check that out yourself, when you have your circuit running...They do get very Hot, if you are using a heavy load and/or your Coil resistance is too low... Regards Ufopolitics
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06-04-2012, 03:24 AM
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Hello Torpex
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Well, with Cap on load you are storing the charges there (making them double) ...so that intensifies the charge to load resistor...Voltage will not drop...(you are using the Cap's V, at the low stage [resistor consumption]) Regards Ufopolitics
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06-04-2012, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
 Typical pinout:  Motorola pinout:  Last edited by torpex : 06-04-2012 at 03:35 AM.
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06-04-2012, 03:32 AM
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@ Bob and Dana...
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I believe , not completely sure though, that we originally had a circuit with just one LM393...and pulsing just one channel (Negative)... Then I asked Mad Scientist if he could make it for dual channels in Anti-Phase...then He included either two LM393 or just One LM339... Now, the reason I wrote all this, is because if you are using just one channel pulse (N)...than you could do it with just one LM393..since the LM339 has so many variances in the legs according to manufacturer's... LM339 is a DUAL Comparator...it has Two LM393 inside... Anyways that was just my opinion trying to help here...but I really have not make any LM's circuits as of yet...been dedicated to Lab tests and Videos lately...MAYA is very good program, excellent, but consumes awfully big time... Glad you liked the video Bob Regards Ufopolitics
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06-04-2012, 04:14 AM
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Hey Dana, Bob, The LM339 is a very common circuit, would be very strange to have different pinouts. There may be other differences in behavior as an oscillator, but not in the pinout. Comparators name (1-2) are relative.
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06-04-2012, 04:22 AM
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Thanks Torpex..
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Well I said I was not sure...  But is about same...Two channel pulsing needs an LM339... LM393 Dual Comparators LM339 Four Comparators...the thing is this circuit will work also (for one channel, Negative) with just One LM393... Am I Right? Regards Ufopolitics
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06-04-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
 Quote:
BTW the power dissipation of my 2SK2837 is 150W at Tc 25 degrees C, but doesn't give me a derateing spec. Think I will look for Fets with a higher power dissipation as this seems to be critical to endurance of this system. Check out the Fet in the file below. One of these would equal 30 of the NTE2397 Fets power dissipation wise.  Hope I don't make too many more mistakes.  Regards Larry
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06-04-2012, 04:23 PM
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LM339 problem
Everyone,
i do not think that the problem is with the LM339 or the board at all now. I got to thinking about the fact that this seems to have a short. so I just started taking things off until the short stopped. I took the pots off one at a time, then I took the whole board off and I still had the short. SO...it seems to me that the MOSFETs are blown and shortage the thing! Duh! I had already ordered more, so when they come in we'll try try again. I have looked at the circuitry, the borads, the solder joints...everything and I think we're OK once the MOSFETs are replaced. Bob
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06-04-2012, 08:50 PM
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Hello Bob
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Hey Bob, Yes, MOSFET's are the first to go on this circuit...and most of times it is just one that shorts out Drain-Negative Source, making the whole circuit be in short, so you should make an easy way to take the heatsink bolts out and check them independent one from the other, BUT FIRST, you should check if there is continuity between Drain-Source,before taking them apart, and making sure you switch the meter's probes according to be in "Forward Bias" with the Intrinsic Diode on the Mosfet's... Regards Ufopolitics
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06-04-2012, 09:01 PM
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Is Ok Larry...
Quote:
 I like that Fet you have posted, I have some similar of bigger case...The only problem I see with this type is their Gate Voltage up to 30V...and the problem I had in the past is that the low signal voltage sent from the IC does NOT even move them, and if they do...the chip can't put up with the draw at high frequencies switching...But, I am talking about the 555 timer, maybe this circuit (LM339) is different or else you would need a Mosfet Driver...and honestly I have been trying to avoid that...just to run it simple by now, till we get all the right frequencies and operation of the whole thing... About the tests...I will let you do them yourself...and then you let me know... Regards Ufopolitics
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06-06-2012, 01:31 PM
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Cool
Quote:
Nice clip and looks to be very time consuming in creating all that content I'm looking forward to see how the pairs of generator coil short out of phase at the peak of the sine wave (if N-S-N-S) effect the asymmetrical motor in the upcoming clip Also, if I'm close in my fundermental understanding of the principles of Tesla's and your motor concepts  Regards Zero 
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06-06-2012, 05:35 PM
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Time consuming...
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Hello ZPE, Not only "time consuming"...but requires a lot of expertise, experience in many different software's...so, with "just lots of time"...won't do it... And think...I made all this effort in order to be understood by many...and for free... So, tell me...did you liked it?...or is it just a lot of time in the making? Quote:
Asymmetry is NOT about to short them "out of Phase"? Quote:
Quote:
By the way, did you get your oscillator running yet? Did You received the Mosfet's? Regards Ufopolitics
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06-06-2012, 07:05 PM
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The Real Understanding of Electricity...Do We really know?
Nobody could really answer a simple question...
What is Electricity? Tesla said: "Whoever gets to really understand electricity, gets to know the Universe.." Electrons flowing are just the transport means to carry electricity... Radiant Energy exist in the Magnetic Fields... Faraday Law of Induction (briefly explained in my own words): When you move a magnet (or any magnetic field) through a copper conductor*..it "Induces" an electrical flow in such conductor...the movement could be applied both ways and will lead to the same response...conductor or Magnetic Field...and direction of movement dictates the direction of flow " That is all fine...But, the Induction occurs from where? A piece of inert magnet moving in front of a copper wire? We could say, this "action" invokes electrical flow by Induction, where Induction is just the "response" to the Action...But where did it come from? It came, It was, it is -all the time- in the Magnetic field...it was just transferred by induction to the wire... And Radiant Energy exist in the Magnetic Field... All a Generator does, is create a continuous, sequenced and timed "Actions" like described above...Then we obtain a "Sequenced, continuous and timed responses that we call electricity"... So, wouldn't you agree with me that we have always been just collecting Electricity from Radiant Energy located in the magnetic fields? *It is understood that conductor must be perpendicular to the lines of Flux, cutting them... Regards to all Ufopolitics
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06-06-2012, 07:45 PM
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Tom Bearden...
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Quoting Tom Bearden: Quote:
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06-06-2012, 09:50 PM
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Hi All,
I got my generator ready! Just in case somebody is not pleased with his circuit or did not start building yet, I post here my version out of a commercial PMW generator kit + PIC. I am very pleased with it. It worked from the very first power application.- IC1 is a voltage regualtor and can be replaced by any available 5V type. - There are four ranges 100Hz, 1000Hz, 10KHz, 100KHz. - Due to the current source around T1 the frequency adjustment is very linearly. - Around IC2 is a very smart circuit for sawtooth shaped signal generation. - IC3 is a ultra fast comparator (4.5ns for 5V swing) as FET driver - but 5V power only!!!. It can be replaced by a second LM393 comparator (200ns for 5V swing / 600ns for 15V swing ...) in order to have higher drive voltages for the FET. This does not mean that your circuits are minor! Keep it if it works well! I do not want to cause disorder. If requested I will elaborate on exact function principle and possible / required modifications at output for our application. Last edited by JohnStone : 06-06-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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06-06-2012, 10:04 PM
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Awesome work John Stone!
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Great set-up John! Now you will let Us know how did it worked out soon... Looks excellent and super ultra fast response driver you've got there!! Regards Ufopolitics
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06-06-2012, 11:24 PM
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Hi all,
I've been testing with other types of small inductors. I will put pictures soon. I am working on 2 new coils. @JohnStone Your generator looks good. Let's see how he behaves on tests with coil. Range of frequency: 0-100 hz, 0-1000 hz, 0-10 khz and 0-100 khz. Is that correct? @Ufo There is much difference in dual phase circuit with respect to one phase circuit?
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06-07-2012, 04:02 AM
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Dual Antiphase
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Yes, there is a difference, more Radiant Power, less risk and less heating of our components... Regards Ufopolitics
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06-07-2012, 06:51 AM
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Lm339an
Quote:
I have my circuit finished (almost)  the Regulator is working Ok the 555 oscillator does not seem to work I have checked my circuit and I think I have a Pos wire onto the coils wrong/missing I have to check it out still. I built the Oscillator on a 555 PCB I purchased it was very hard to fit the components on and it's hard for me to check it out also the 555 gets hot, I need to build another PCB one that is easier to fit the components on. I have some pics on Photo bucket of my setup and the PCB drawing I intend to use (its Bob's LM339 Oscillator ) Please if someone could check it out for me they are here. Kogs UFO Photos pictures by Kogs1 - Photobucket the LM339's I have purchased here they are the same as the top ones above http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.c...6b8002cf9a.pdf Please Are these LM339's the correct pin? I have been following all the posts and appreciate what I am learning. I am chomping at the bit to have mine running. Kindest regards Kogs
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06-07-2012, 12:52 PM
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Perception of terms.
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I thought that I added that I enjoyed the clip. I liked it. I know from making powerpoint presentations the time I placed into editing sections of videos, splicing other frames, text and many hours vanish  That was basic video editing software, not multiple. Maybe I used the wrong terminology with the word "short" and would be more accurate to say either, discharge or switch via the commutator. I see this Asymmetrical motor concept just as Tesla desribes (patent 524,426) with the inbalance in the length of the pole pieces cause a magnetic phase difference. Each set of coil pairs will exhibit a time delay in proportion to the core of the coils length and thus create an inbalance of magnetic flux to each coil pair. This is the way my visual representation plays out in my head Regards Zero
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06-07-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Schematics need more resolution, costs a bit to see. In your lm317 circuit the diodes must be 1N4002, no need to use NTE576, but works also. Diodes NTE576 are for the coil. Oscilator circuit:  Drawing is components side, right? Pinout for the lm339 is correct, pin 2&4-5 and pin 1&6-7. I think the + also be wired to lm317 regulated output. Do not use the jumper, pin 5 to ground is incorrect, right? The coil looks good  I do not see the schematic of your 555 circuit. Last edited by torpex : 06-07-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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06-07-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Finally you use channel-P and N or all channel N with cinan driver?
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06-07-2012, 09:07 PM
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Dual Anti-Phase Channels
Quote:
The One I have been showing on videos (Dual Channel Oscillator) is based on a Dual 555 timer that I posted before here...based on a Mosfet check circuit...so far it works fine, the only problems are that the P-Channels I use are not "exactly" a match for the NTE2397's so there is a bit Off sequence in the starting low frequency but Resistance increases (between Positive Source-Positive Drain) till I reach higher freq. levels... The first IC555 originates the frequency and is adjusted just like the old circuit...the second IC 555, creates a "Mirror Image" but in High Side to excite the P-Channels...what I did is from leg 3 of IC1 to Leg 2 (trigger) of IC2...and 3 of IC2 excites P-Channels. The circuit from Mad Scientist based on the LM339 could drive two channels, P and N...easier and more effective... Cinan have a brighter idea to just use N-Channels for both Positive-Negative...but He have not make it yet...(not that I know off) Regards Ufopolitics
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