UFO,

I know you have a lot more tricks up your sleeve.
Is this where we are going?

Electric Car Without Battery, make VIRAL ! (Oil replacement solution) Magnetic Motor - YouTube

I have already indicated that it can be done and how to do it, but one more time will not hurt me. No, nothing is welded. Place the rotor loosely in a vise with commutator side up. Tap straight down on the shaft so as not to bend it, untill shaft is level with top of commutator, then use a welding rod or smaller shaft to tap the old shaft all the way out. It is a bit easier if wire has been removed first but works both ways.
When replacing a shaft into the rotor, take a dremmel and rough up the area where laminations will be befor using epoxy to set it solid. Waiting for the epoxy to dry well before doing any winding is a good idea as you will loosen up everthing and have to start over. Four hours is a good wait.
Dana

prochiro or anyone else who has tried with drill motors - dang I didn't get very far and as I said I'm a motor newbie. I've got a steel gear on the shaft and while I've got gear pullers for car stuff they are all too big for this. Any ideas how to get that off? I think the best solution would be a small gear puller but I don't have one. Vise and tapping it down maybe ? But seems it's on really tight and I'm concerned I'll flatten out the end of the shaft. I guess I could cut the gear off at the sides with my metal bandsaw?

__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

Hi John,
sorry for chiming in.
Did you watch
Peter Lindemann -- Electric Motor Secrets
Peter Lindemann -- Electric Motor Secrets - YouTube
There is very good explanation about the basics happening inside normal motors if we look inside and not from ourtside as a black box only.
Based on these facts UFO (but independently) devidsed enhanced motor designs overcoming the "WITCH" sitting inside the standard bewitched motors.
So the answer to your question is: both: highly effitient motors and dto. generators.

Up to now some independent replications in small scale were built in order to prove it can be done. Apparent enhanced properies are obvious. This is the first step of scientificly proved replications. On the other hand - who cares of science if every contributor in this thread drives his own electric car - next year?

It is very difficult to make proper and useful torque measurements at such small motors. But torque measuremenrts are essential in order to measure the mechanical power generated. Even electrical measurements are not trivial. You should understand that this is a democratic low budget scince open source, shared and free. Expensive measurement equipment is not available.
Nevertheless measurements need to be done soon.

@ALL: Additionally to Mr. Lindemann's torque measurement demonstrated another way can be devised. A breake motor on the same shaft will generate a variable brake forth measured by a lever attached to the brake motor and a normal scale. From this force and the turn speed the current mechanical power can be calculated. The advantage is that we get constant conditions and can find out where exactly the sweet spot is.
Exact measurement of the input power is much more easier but is not trivial as well. I will cover this item in a later post.

__________________
Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

Try heating the gear with a cigarette lighter while pulling. I got rid of it by using a screw driver as wedge ( better use two of them).
Unfortunately the shaft was grooved under the gear. You need to sand the extending material away in order to slip down the bearings. Now this sanded part is not good for using later on in the bearing.
So I need to apply the suggestion posted before to use both shafts and put the grooved/sanded part inside the armature. I hope the armature is stable (welded) in itself and does not break apart if not fitted on a single shaft.

__________________
Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

for my part i will be trying to source several 3 pole motors.
it appears one could even leave the standard wiring in position and merely extend the wires on the coild slightly to attach to the new commutator.
this will give a standard and modified motor with 99% similar winding/wire/resistance/friction etc.
then one can devise tests to see which one lasts longer on the same battery input, which one will turn say a propeller faster and for how long or whatever other tests could help decide just how impressive the new torqe/power/efficiency is.
i hope i can find some soon

You haave a tough one there. The simplest thing to do is use another shaft and maybe a longer one. However, place the gear on the vice in loose fashion and try to hammer it out after heating just a little on the gear only, not too much heat. If this will not work without getting viral, the only other thing to do is use your dremmel and cut it off by setting gear in vice sideways and cut longwise of the gear. Wear eye protection.
Dana

Hello Dad Hav,


I am very sorry I have not being able to respond before to you, since I have been dedicated entirely to finish my work here. I hope you could forgive me.

I think I could help Woopy just a bit, about explaining your concerns and questions about this Systems...

This Machines as Motor function related have many advantages over any of the Symmetrical kind.

1- Effective Voltage (Ev) at Armature/Rotor is greater than Input Voltage (Ea), since the power that used to be called C EMF in the past Symmetrical System...and was of "negative value", therefore, had to be deducted from Ea...Now has become of Positive value, therefore, on complete assistance to Rotation Force and is added to Ev.

1-a: This positive parameter on our side, generates an increase of force volume on this motors, beyond the short circuit ones and of course...of the latest BLDC Motor...that is a complete crash of flow in its Star or Delta windings...

1-b: This positive factor allows Us, to "no longer sacrifice" one of the desired parameters as are RPM's or Torque like We all have been taught it MUST be done...sorry..but not anymore, yes, We can have both Worlds together.

2-The Source or Battery consumption reduces to Milli-volts levels, when compared to a short circuit reversed polarity symmetrical motor...

3- This Motors do not have reversed or negative feedback "parasitical" and randomly traveling currents hitting and frying our electronic sensitive components anymore...The Flow has been oriented to go "One Way Only"...

4-This Motors do not require "massive amperage" to operate and develop their work at very efficient levels...The Typical Amperage requirements of Symmetrical Machines, was entirely due, to their constant wrestling electrical-current forces within their rotating components...Reminding all here, that Amperage is a "Population Value" of Electrons at a given section of the conductor, therefore, is understood, that if we have a machine that has a very populated Incoming Traffic towards Our Traffic Flow...the measurements at any given part of such conductors...Our meters will read "Mega Congested Amperage Area" in just that section.

Therefore We are all gonna have to familiarize with the so called "Nonsensical" arguments of many, many Inventors, the list is huge, who stated, their "Machines worked only on Voltage"...or "They did not require a Higher Amperage"...and so on, they kept repeating to exhaustion, and were all taken as "ignorant and not properly skilled in the Art, or in the fields"...

5- This Motors allow many other circuit-windings designs within the same armature, comprehending wider poles configurations, that increases their "throw out angles of magnetic forces " developing speeds beyond our knowledge in any electrical motor known so far.
As they also allow an "Start-Up Winding" of shorter poles for greater torque in much heavier machines...it will become a kind of Electromagnetic Transmission within just one embodiment.

6-This Machines only "Turn On and Turn Off" their Coils, in order to achieve rotation, therefore is understood, that Electronic Signaling Circuitry based on just Opto Isolators could be employed, reducing all friction drag and heat... But mainly leaving to Electronics Highly developed logic circuitry to control their operations in a more accurate and faster response fashion.

7- We can combine, add, modulate and exchange this machines internal and external components as We desire, and that includes the fusion of Motors and Generators in just One Assembly...in order to obtain our specific design requests.

There are many more advantages to them...and then some we never thought off will come in near future...and I know We will.

This Machines will bring a new age for Motor and Generator applications...World wide...the list of benefits is endless and limited only to our capacity and imagination...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi ewizard

I put some ideas on:
My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

If you make 2 bars with slots, and taper both with a file/grinder, you could push the 2 wedges together, to force the commutator up.

Regards

John

I have posted a video of my first build - I am very excited by the results. I used a 1$ Fan motor and eliminated the second commutator. Please enjoy!

UFO's Asymmetric Motor Variation - It Works
Brad S

Thanks John and everyone for the suggestions. Your idea here put a picture in my mind of how I'm fairly certain I can do this. Close to yours but a little different. If it works out I'll share some pics for anyone else in this dilemma to try.

__________________
There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

Hello Brad!!,

Great video!, and what you did with the generator, instead of the Commutator is awesome!...You have made a continuous slip ring out of nothing there but a bushing...wow, great improvement!

But now guys...you are all abusing of those little motors...

They never thought they were going to be used and abused this way!!

Now, let me tell you another small hint...even though you may be out of room there...

A later experiment I have been doing...is to add 3.9 to 5.1 K Resistors between the opposite extreme from where we take the Armature power off...meaning, the side where we set the jumper cable from Negative Input to Positive Out, right there, I added between commutators those resistors...it increases the output voltage, from 5 to 10% depending on set up...

So, Radio Shack has this very tiny resistors of different values...I have only gone as low as 3.9K, but on higher V, So I think for your set-up it could use much lower ones...and put them in between end coils and common bushing_linear contact ring...

I mean, you already turned up that light...and maybe now turn on a CFL...


Good work!!


Thanks and regards


Ufopolitics

i am thinking of using this motor ..HTI 5 pole .. the shaft is long to do the stuff, has anyone looked into this , also one thing bothers me is the brass this in the top..


http://www.mopselectric.com/ebay/hti12vmotor3.jpg

pls let me know if someone has experience with HTI motor.

regds
pat

Hello Pat,

Just check if the shaft at bottom (where commutator goes) is the same diameter as the thicker upper one or it changes?...it normally should not...

So if it does not changes it is ok to convert...but if it is thinner...it could become a longer project for you...unless you have a Lathe and could machine it...but still the bearing is going to be off...

So check on bottom before taking it apart...


Regards


Ufopolitics

HTI 12 VDC - 700 Series - 5 Pole Electric Trimmer Motor | eBay

Looks same at bottom ... Going to get 4 of these from some cheaper place..

Thanks
Pat

Hello Seth,

So, Ok, that's the same approach as Bbem, the lazy guy who took same wires...and cheat!

Remember Brushes Angle must vary to 90 degrees related to Stators...

Regards


Ufopolitics

This is The finished dewalt motor made out of parts from three others including longer shaft and new brushes. The tube is one piece and came fron a long 5 pole motor. I show this just to show that you can do anything that you can think of. The sky is the limit.


Dana

Great work Friend!!

Excellent, looks beautiful!!

Now...







Does it run??....

Just kidding...


Warm regards


Ufo

Pat,
I have seen that motor, and it was my second choice, but it did appear
that the shaft was the same dia. till you get to the threaded part. It also
looked like the brass part will slide off. The motor has a very high RPM stock
at 12v. I opted for this other motor because it came with an out side sleve
that allows me to line both halves of the motor case up.
Hope that helps.

Mark

UFO, I believe as you do that many large motors can be ran on milliamps with additional circuitry. But without that additional circuitry, what kind of amperage reduction can be expected in larger motors?

Also, why is there no amperage reduction in these smaller motors yet if we have eliminated the "electron build-up"?

Thanks,
Bobo

Hello Bobo,


We have not eliminated the Electron build up just by running them Bobo...We are still getting it back if We do not use the Output Flow...

Machine spins electron flow back at Us...I mean, not that critical as Symmetrical does..besides flow is towards our direction, but that gets somehow a "population" if the machine is not loaded...therefore gets a normal to high Amperage reading...

Figure yourself inside the Machine...observing the Electrons spin like a Vortex...with only two exits out (The two Negatives or Positive, however you want to look at electron flow)..One Up...One down...and the way "virtual tunnel expands" so they could travel out...is when you get their gates wide open. If not they will keep spinning-collapsing...however, they are "Side Lateral Collisions"...never "Front End"...like the other System does...

This Machines keep a pretty good balance inside of them, if they are not under load...they will consume much less...kind of an "automatically set cruise control"...and that is because Magnetic fields creates a rotational balance flow within, when it is idling...not accelerated, Magnetic Field and Electrical Flow keeps an Equilibrium of forces...so no big "demand" is required from Source...

Also acceleration from Idling point is smoother, since Machine has its Coils charged and balanced...so it does not occur the typical High Kick Back Force from Zero Point up...Machine is always ready to go from idling.

Now all this motors perform much better...just like the Symmetric also...being regulated by PWM Controllers.

Hope this help you understand them better...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Looking forward to the next step

Thank you for the journey

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Hello Minoly!!

That's a nice looking little red machine!!

Incredibly she will break all rules Uh?!...Unbelievable!...

Nice and detailed work!!

Regards


Ufopolitics

Ok Guys,


This Motors are perfect for this Conversion, I have Two of them, and the advantages are... they have lots of room inside, enough inner shaft length to add the second Commutator and the Housing for Brushes...However some adaptations will have to be made in that part (Second Housing in Front)

And the better one is that parts are available as you like...even a stripped Armature core cleaned up...before wiring(has to be ordered)...Now, this motors are Vacuum sealed at wires with resin..so it is NOT an easy job to take wires out...unless whole armature is boiled/on fire..but that will take resin burnt...so is not a smart solution...(without Commutators, of course)

It took me a good amount of hours to strip just one Rotor really clean...it is wounded with Bifilar Green-Gold 16 Gauge awg...

The Cooling Fan would have to pulled off with some tooling similar to one posted here by a Member, just bigger, and hooked to an Automotive Steering Wheel Pulley, (they could be rented at most Auto Parts...free with just a deposit)

This Motors are rated from 1 to 5 HP...I recommend the cheapest ones (lowest HP), since it will have less wire to strip...
But Most Motor Manufacturers are no longer making this kind of Armatures...Now is either BLDC or the single heavy wire Coil of Higher poles(63and Up), but very fine and narrow spacing...and depth, so it will not work for this...so far...maybe someone finds a way to do it.


[IMG][/IMG]

Since I have several scrap motors, I recoiled a new rotor.
It took me half an hour, with 90 turns of gauge 30 wire per pole.
It is running stronger and faster then the previous, but it takes 1 amp now.

Bert

ps. The original wire had higher gauge and turns on the poles.

Hello Bert,

Hey, I was just kidding...about the lazy guy...did not meant for you to take it apart...lol

Listen, how many Amps-Volts are you getting out of just the Output terminals, not bridged?

30 is kind of a fine wire, what kind of body you have there?...last time I saw the 7 poles body..similar or could you get a bit higher awg, less turns...I did my three poles TRAXXAS with 26...

Let me know


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo,

So glad you liked the demo.
Thank you so much for the kind words and encouragement.

netica

Test setup ready for a day of testing.

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__________________
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Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened' General D.Eisenhower
The world we have created is a product of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking. Albert Einstein
I aim to misbehave. - Malcolm Reynolds

Hi woopy,

Glad you liked the video. I have enjoyed watching many of your great videos.
This is a drawing of the circuit you requested, hope it helps.

netica

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Hello Dave,

Are you going to test also a Dual Asymmetric set up, Motor to Gen?...or that would be later on..I guess lot of work.

It looks great let's see tomorrow...poor motors, they have no idea...looking so clean and nicely set...


Regards


Ufopolitics